Category: Let's talk
HI there people:
A gross injustice has been committed against my friend, and she needs the help of as many in the blind community as possible. What has happened is that her husband, now her ex husband, gave her guide dog over to animal control while she was brutally ill in the hospital out of malicious intent. A rescue organization took the dog out of the shelter and is withholding the dog from her. One of the directors of the pet rescue organization has lied to my friend and put her through loops. The story also made the news media. I encourage you to read the story and do everything you can to help bring this dog home. Write letters. Make phone calls. Do whatever you can to help bring her back. Spread to word to as many as possible Ever bit of help counts.
Here is the story link
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/money/onyourside/news-article.aspx?storyid=139148#comments
Ken Amaro at first coast news
You can call the below numbers if you'd like or write the email address.
onmyside@firstcoastnews.com
(904) 354 - 1212
SAFE Pet Rescue
(386) 937 - 3535
We appreciate anyone who can help. Thanks for reading.
It appears that the link is not clickable. You'll need to type or paste it into your browser. Sorry about that. I will have to play around with the site to see if the boards accept html.
I don't understand. If the dog belongs to your friend, why will they not give it back to her?
I don't know either. This rescue organization is putting her through hell. They are making up lie after lie. My friend has spend many sleepless nights crying because she was so close to that dog. She now has a lawyer, and things are getting started; however, we know it is going to be a very long road. Robin, at Safe Pet Rescue, is clearly doing everyting illegally, including lying about there being a board of directors when there is none, and if caught at her game, she will be in serious trouble. I pray that justice is done soon.
Hope your friend gets her guide dog back soon. Especially as it's a working dog, they wouldn't be allowed to just do that anyway.
can your friend call up the guide dog school and get some help from them, in addition to the lawyer? Maybe with the school's help, things might move a little more quickly, and she can get her dog back.
If she got it from southeastern, which is close to jcksonville, then she can probably call there and they will do anything in their power t help her. I can't imagne why they wouldn't. Also, she can probably bring a law suit against the shelter for with holding the dog, and if he an't, the school she got it from can. It depends on who actually owns the dog, which isusually actually the dg school rather then the owner.
Another thing she can do is call either the St.Augustine or the jcksonville newspapers, or even the florida satnewspaper that is circulated in that area, and run as many articles as shecan. Its amazing what media exposue can do. There are everal reporters in that area who are very in tun with the needs of blind people.
As for me, I will do my best, I know a couple of the reporters at the St. Augustine paper, and I will give them a call to see if the can't do anything for her. I hpe she gets her dog back. Keeping a guide dog from a blind person is awful.
Its my dog. It was given to me through a private service dog trainer, but I spent money on the training. We taught this dog in two to three months what it takes most dogs four to six months to learn. The trainer worked cooperatively with me, listening to what I wanted and needed and providing me with the perfect dog (as perfect as a living thing can be anyways, you always allow for a few mistakes). It was by accident that we realized that my guide dog could also detect my epileptic siezures. If you are curious why I don't use schools, I have two reasons. One, I really want to be a part of my dog's training (I am a former professional obedience trainer and have titled dogs in obedience as well as worked on several problem dogs for clients). The other is that most guide dog schools that I have spoken to will not do home training and I cannot leave my two little boys for a month. It isn't feasable.
Robin says she has a lawyer, but refuses to provide the name or contact information, which makes me think that she doesn't. She said that the SAFE Pet Rescue board of directors had denied the return of my dog, and Jean, the co-owner of the organization, says there is no such thing as a board of directors for the organization, which has only existed for about a year. All I want is my dog, and I can fax her all of the dog's certification information, right down to her Public Access Test scores, and she won't respond to any contact attempts. It could cost me up to $5000 to get another dog and it will cost me $1500 to retain a lawyer, who can't even guarantee me that this injustice can be fixed.
What scares me the most is what this says for the guide and service dog community. It says that anyone can take our dogs from us and we would be powerless to get them back. Robin's actions scream that it doesn't matter that we need our dogs. Her agenda is more important than my physical safety. According to her, Elizabeth was sick. While I was not responsible for the dog's illness, I offered to pay the vet care costs (which I don't have to) and she blew me off. I cry at night, and have been in the hospital more than I would like to admit due to siezure related injuries. If the dog was here, I would have up to a half hour to go lie down somewhere safe, and I wouldn't be having so many health issues. Thanks for listening to me. If anyone can help, then please let me know! I need her back.
Allow me to clarify something quickly so I don't sound heartless. When I say I don't have to pay Beth's vet care costs, I only mean that my lawyer informed me that it wasn't necessary but could be helpful to offer it. I always cared for Elizabeth and kept her up to date on vet care. I would have paid it either way. I just wanted everyone to know that I wasn't being cruel but would expend everyfinancial resource to get her back.
I guess I still don't fully understand. Can the owner of the dog not just call this Robin and demand the dog back? If neither you nor the owner were responsible for her illness, on what grounds could she possibly be withheled from you?
I hope you get your dog back.
the dog cannot be withheld from her. This is why this whole thing is messed up! Robin needs to pay for this!
She is telling people she had adopted her out and the family is attached so she won't even tell them about the situation. So the family, and other members of her organization, are in the dark about what is going on. I feel I am being punished for Elizabeth being sick, but she is also basically saying that the love between a person and their dog only matters when they are matches made from HER shelter. She thinks that everyone abuses their pets, apparently. I think she's only concerned with making money on the dog, and not about her well-being or the people who love her. I have posted the link to her site below. She only has a P.O. Box for her shelter. Something isn't right. http://www.spayneuterpets.com/safe
Well. i left her a very scathing message on her voicemail, and Isee many red flags. they are as follows:
1. Her voicemail just has her name and not a professional business greeding, which does not represent the business well at all. Just from that, I can get the feeling that this organization is run out of someone's closet. It does not seem businesslike at all. If one were wanting to portray themselves as a business, this is a very poor way to do it. Perhaps, she should take tips from a seasoned CEO, such as myself.
2. On the website, there is o concrete address for the business. There is only a PO box. So, where do these pets go when they are supposedly rescued by this organization? Who knows.
I encourage all of you to put the pressure on and call Safe Pet Rescue. I'm waiting to see if she will have the guts to call me back and confront me. I left my number twice on the voicemail. I think I'm going to call her every single day until she cracks. I'm also going to send her emails, and i'm going to clog up her PO box. This is so wrong! She will pay if I have anything to do with it!
All right, let me see what I can do. There's got to be somebody or some way to put a stop to this because it's clearly wrong. Meantime, you might want to post this on Blinknation, Blind Planet, and other places if you haven't already.
Something else of interest. SAFE Pet Rescue only has a mobile adoption van and travels to locations. There is no kennel to go to if you want to view the dogs. If these dogs are so well cared for, why can't they be visited at any time. Also she only provides basic vet care, and has no qualms about adopting out sick animals and letting owners absorb major veterinary expenses.` This isn't right. The website hasn't been updated since sometime in February. The blog hasn't been updated since May. Yes, they have a blog and she hasn't even addressed this on it. Its all about her mission. Apparently she has something to hide. I just want my dog back. I don't see how that makes me a terrible person.
this is exactly why i agree with the UK's standpoint on guide dogs. noone, in the UK can train their own service dogs. they are trained by the various organisations, be it guide dogs for blind, hearing dogs for deaf, assistance dogs for epoleptics etc. the dog remains the property and responsability of the charity throughout its life. this situation could not happen in the UK. yes we might be backwards in a lot of disabled issues when it comes to employment of disabled etc, but this is one situation where things are working well here. I feel sorry for the owner of this dog, but it is because of the non offiliation with recognised bodies i feel, that this situation has been allowed to continue. it seems very confused, she said this, he said that , and an unregulated animal wellfair org in the midst of it all. go to the charities I say. This is tipical commercial shit where anyone can do anything to anyone imho. the land of the free gone mad where deregulation is the name of the game, hearsay and bullshit reign supreme. i hope this resolves itself, but i can see this costing billions and billions and billions, OJ simpson with paws. Just my view on all this.
I disagree with this. She has told several people that she would also ignore a guide dog school. This is her agenda. Also, the schools will tell students that they will write a letter stating that they gave the student the dog, but that they won't do much more. It is a sad situation when something like this happens. I feel like no one in the world who can help really thinks that this matters. The whole situation is just wrong.
I wanted to clarify again so I don't sound horrible. Not all of the schools have such wonky policies, but a lot of the schools I have dealt with, both as a student and an advocate, have had very bizzare policies on what aid they will lend to students in regard to ownership of the dog. Again, not all schools are like this, but I know a lot of schools that are. I just didn't want guide dog users that have used schools to obtain their dogs to think that I was trashing guide dog schools. There are a lot of good schools out there, but there are a lot of strange ones, too. Even some of the good schools have odd rules.
Well, the woman--if I could call her that--has yet to return my call. She can look forward to another one from me tomorrow. I just might call her from all different numbers and clog up her voicemail! :) hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! LOL Gotta purchase the postage stamps also, so I can clog up the PO box. Don't think I'm serious? Watch me...
Also, does anyone have a membership to Blank Nation that can send me an invite? I tried to join but the register form has been disabled due to spam abuse. I tried contacting Dustin, the site owner and giving him suggestions to employ other measures so sign up can be open to the public again, but I've yet to receive a response. I also asked him to make me an account. I have yet to see that happen either. So, if anyone wants to invite me, send me a PM, and I'll send you my email so I can receive the invite.
Again, if such schools were supervised and licensed by the government, or even run by the government, this situation would not have come up.
It seems like the (ex)husband should be the one responsible for the mess and for financially taking care of either training a new service animal or paying the cost required to get this one back.
Incidentally it's cases like these that make me appreciate having a cane, if one is taken from me a new one can be had for $24, or less.
I certainly wish you guys all the best with this, but this story is too one sided and seems too personal for me to take action other than wish you a happy resolution.
Why were you in Texas without the dog, after all guide dogs usually go everywhere with the owners, there must've been some reason for the shelter to believe the story that the dog was abused. If you have a chip tracking the animal, why can't you tell where it is now, how does that chip work? And why can't that chip proof who the animal is as well as, where it is and, subsequently, what sort of paperwork and certification do you have proving the dog's status as a service animal?
I'm not saying anything in the story isn't true in any way, I'm just wondering from reading this how this could become so complicated and everyone who is to comment and help out needs to understand the situation as well as possible.
An, "long term CEO" .. sounds a tad bt too fancy for a 24 year old who does computer repair. That term is better for someone in their 40s wit too much education, lots of arrogance who bankrupts a big financial institution, gets bonuses and then continues to fly on corporate jets to Mexico on vacations while tax payers take care of the expenses, now that is a real CEO.
Also, the more you guys go on about spamming and revenge calls and name calling, the more I feel it's a matter of two irresponsible people bashing online and perhaps there are parts to this story we don't know yet, so be civil, be adult, don't ruin your cause by acting like revenge crazy 8 year olds, no matter how good a reason you feel you may have. I'm getting awfully skeptical myself after reading these exchanges.
Yes, they do go everywhere, but being in the hospital with me, and me unable to walk her myself, I thought it was very unfair to do that to her. That is a lot of emotional stress for a dog, and too much emotional stress is just as detrimental as separation. A stressed dog will not work appropriately.
I am not revenge drazy and I am not calling, bashingm or behaving like an eight year old. I simply want back the dog. I have sent a total of four emails in two months to this woman, and have called her three times over the course of the same time period. I have been letting my lawyer try to help, but she ignores everyone.
On a side note, not to be rude or lash out, but I think your CEO comment was a little unfair. I also feel it unfair that you use the word "irresponsible" to describe two people who are fighting for a cause. I don't want to bash Robin or SAFE Pet Rescue. I am sure Robin thinks she's doing what is right, but she isn't. All I am doing is telling my story and pointing out things that I feel are wrong with the organization and the situation. Nothing more. I appreciate that you have your own individual opinion, but please don't lash out at us.
To the poster above me, I spoke to the news media about what we should do, and the guy that works there said that we should call every single solitary day and write as often as possible. Make as much of a stink and as much noise as possible about the matter. i'd do the same if CPS took my child on false grounds because they do do that. I was a victim of the system as I was taken into custody for a weekend by CPS, and they did things to me that made me go blind. They screwed up all my medical treatments and the like. It is too much of a long story, hence the reason I get so angered about injustices and act as I do. In many instances, there are people who behave in outrage just as we have and are far from eight year olds. People write petitions, they write letters, and they make phone calls, some as scathing as others.
It is fine that you are skeptical. Please be as skeptical as you'd like. I encourage you to do all of the investigation work that you need to to see that we are not lying. I encourage you to call Robin herself. You'll probably get a wishy washy story, but I'd rather you see everything for yourself so you can have both sides. i'm not one to be one sided at all. All I know is that i hate the woman very much because I'm watching my friend suffer. I'm so sorry to bring my emotions into all of this, but it just happens, as I hate to see people get hurt. i hate injustice period, though, i know it is a fact of life. I just try to do what I can to help people out. If I could bring justice to the whole world, I'd do everything in my power to do so.
I want to leave off by saying thank you for thinking that I'm better than an average CEO in that I do not take advantage of people. While I'm well off for my age, I do not like to throw it up in people's faces. It is not important how much money I have or what I've done. I do not like to brag and brag about my successes. Rather, I'm a CEO of a different kind. I've faught and worked so hard to get where I'm at now. It was not easy, and it still is not. My company was born out of wanting what's good for myself and from a deeply loved passion that i embrace--technology. Nobody in my town would give me a job, and rather than being another statistic and be another unemployed blind person, I created my own opportunity, thus I feel I worked hard enough to deserve the title of CEO, no matter my age. I'm not one who wants sympathy or people to feel sorry for me. I can't stand that. Rather, i like to work for what I have and work hard. It makes one feel good to have friends born of respect rather than sympathy.
Contrary to most CEO's, I like to help out people and see them get successful. A CEO being in their forties and having a severe amount of education is only a steriotype. Just because I'm young does not mean I'm a steriotypical young person, though, I do like partying from time to time but keep my morals in line, as I embrace conservative values. Young people can be successful, and they do not have to have a whole lot of education, as you put it. I actually have not one ounce of education in my field, not one bit. I've never stepped foot in a classroom for the work i'm doing now. I'm just a self taught tech that has an extreme passion for what I do. I've also never taken a business course, and I know how to run opperations and make money very quickly. I'm doing better than a lot of big companies that are going bankrupt. I'm not at all feeling the effects of this economy. A lot of very powerful entrepreneurs have never ever taken a business course in their lives. It's all about having the traits and personality of a natural born leader, which cannot be made but are born. Some are born leaders and some are born followers. Success is all about the traits you've been dealt along with intelligence and creativity. Do I know everything? No way. I'm always learning because the doors to wisdom never close. Yet, there is no age on success or talent or intelligence.
Thanks so much for contributing to this thread and giving your views on matters, though, we have some differing opinions. Nonetheless, it is nice to hear from you. I wish you well in all that you do. Take care.
Well said, Lady Faith.
Please keep in mind also that not all CEOs are as you described. There are some very nice ones out there. It is unfair to classify all CEOs the same
Well, geek woman, you got it right in the first post and I congratulate you for that, then you lost it a bit in the last two, my sarcasm was supposed to get right through.
And, keep it pro, like I said, you shouldn]t need to feel so defensive, by answering questions from skeptical readers you make the story more believable and get more people to help, if you get overly defensive about natural questions you make your story seem very weird.
You must remember you're posting on a web site that has seen more than it's shares of very silly, very drama stirring people post a lotof nonsense and one sided views. It's the nature of the web site, but it also makes one automatically consider posts a few times before deciding they're worth somethin or believable.
Lady, you also did not really answer any of my questions, so I'm still waiting on that post (ok, you sort of gave an explanation as to why the dog wasn't in Texas with you, but why were you in a totally different state thousands of miles from home, without your dog, in a hospital, and your hubby went right ahead and turned the dog in to a shelter, and what about the chip locator thing).
I still find this extremely weird.
Answer with as much or as little detail as you like, but don't lash out at someone who wants to understand your story.
I still think you should've gone with a public organization animal, I also think home schooling is a horrible idea, but it's all a matter for a different discussion, what matters now for you is to make the best of your situation, and if you can make it a bit more transparent what happened, why, and that you are the innocent party who is the victim of a scrupolous husband and a shady organization we'll work right with ya, but on first consideration, you must understand it makes more sense that you're being a bit crazy and blaming everyone else for troubles you caused yourself (again, not saying you did, just saying it's the easy, first view, explanation(.
wildebrew thanks for your understanding. In the last two posts, I was just making sure that you knew that not all rich people--capitalists or CEOs--are bad. I do not want to be labeled as a bad person because I work hard and have money. I did not even know you were being sarcastic. I tend to take things a bit literal at times, so please forgive me for this. I have a case of Asperger's Syndrome, so while I'm starting to get a bit better at reading between the lines, I still do find it a bit challenging at times.
I know all too well about the drauma on this site, and I stay away from any sort of drauma as far as I can. I am sorry to admit, but I thought you were one to stir up things at first, but when I read deeper into your post, I just realized that you were a healthy skeptic just wanting to know all that you can, and that is fabulous. I encourage skepticism, as it would be horrible for one to not have a backbone and go along with everything said. Because you did question everything, I have ore respect for you. Feel free to conduct your investigation. Give Robin a call. Ask her as much as you want to. I urge you to do this. Perhaps, the call will enable her to know that she is being found out, I hope? Like I said, i hate injustice. I can't say that i have had the pleasure, but I do know a whole lot of people that have been severely hurt, abused, screwed, and treated in unspeakable ways. I'm not sure if it is my calling to stand up for them, but I feel like I need to. I've also had some very undesirable experiences myself that not even my own family knows about and that I tend to take to my grave. My poor mother would kill herself if she only knew, so I'll do what I've always done. I'll trust in God for strength, and I'll deal with it with the help of God. I've seen more in all my twenty-four years than someone of one hundred. I have no inocence left, no not an ounce left. I have nightmares every night, and I hesitate to discuss things in counceling, but what I can say is that these horrible experiences have made me stronger, compassionate, understanding, and who I am today. I don't thank God for what I have been through and witnessed; however, I thank him for the insight I've gained. Take care of yourself and blessings.
again, this all stems from too much deregulation and not enough statutory protection, though this person did opt out of that when she chose to train her own service dog. that is a stupid thing to do imho, especially in America, where you do one thing wrong with your service dog, you get sued like shit, and without the backing of the state schools, you say bye bye to savings, your home, your income, all that.
Smokey, i do not think it is that severe. I'm not too much of a fan of Big Brother--the government--regulating people's lives. That is what a dictatorship or communism is for. Quite frankly, I enjoy my individuality and being capitalistic. I do not want some government telling me what I need to do and how it should be done. I feel that the government has two roles and it should never go past these. They need to just protect our human rights and defend the people. Anything outside of that is crossing the line. If you disagree, that is fine, however, this is how I feel.
I think that my friend did not make a dumb choice. She has the right to choose where and how she will train her dog. Also, she has the right to choose what kind of dog she wants. It makes things more personal and it causes the bond to be stronger. No, i'm not downing anyone who gets their dogs from a school, as people need to do what works best for them. I am just saying that I like this option myself as well and agree with my friend. No matter which option one chooses, it does not give anyone the right to break laws and take advantage of that person. Protection of rights in this case can still be given to an individual who chooses this path without strict and overbearing government regulation for which I'm stauntchly against. If you allow the government too much power, they will keep on taking it until you have nothing left. It has happened before, and it can happen again. I'm now stepping down off of my political soap box.
I was in Texas because I had lived there for four years and had just recently moved back to my home state. I hope this clears up some confusion. The ADA is written in such a way which gives us the freedom to train our own partners, or do what I did and work hand in hand with a trainer to make sure things were as I wanted. I used to be a veterinary technician when my sight was better. I also have a professional training background. I knew what I was getting into and never once have I felt I made a mistake. If nothing else, Elizabeth and I have enjoyed a very strong bond, and she has always been dead on with work. I would train again. I don't think the schools are a bad idea, but they aren't practical for me.
According to Robin, the chip doesn't mean a thing. I thought they were supposed to help us get our dogs back. She only fumed that the chip hadn't been switched over to her name, which the chip company will not do without my permission. They did not get it. I am debating reporting her stolen. I want her back and I am trying to do this the right way.
reporting the dog as stolen might be a way round it. and i resent geekwoman's comments about dictatorship. i am only talking of how it is in the UK, you cannot train your own dogs, and i feel this is the right way about it, for if you train your own dogs and something goes wrong, you're in the shit. the UK is not a dictatorship, not last time I checked.
i'm talking of protections for the guide dog user and their dog, rather than restrictions on where that dog or user can do/go. with deregulation comes a lack of checks and balances, a lack of help for the wronged user of a service or utility.
I'm sorry you resent my comment, and I did not mean to upset you. I was just merely stating that I like the freedom of choice and that I do not agree with the government regulating where you get the dog and how you get it and where and how it is trained. Personally, I'm in favor of privitized options, when things become socialized, there is problems.
i was not saying that the government of the UK was a dictatorship. I never referred to your country as such. I just said that the government regulating and controlling everything has no place but with communism and dictatorships. I don't feel it has no place in a democracy. Of course, you and I have differing views as to what roles the government will play, and that is fine with me. I can respectfully agree to disagree because it is foolish to expect everyone to think and feel the same. I'm actually thinking of coming to visit the UK sometime, as I have a number of friends there. i actually look forward to seeing the attractions and experiencing something different than here. Hopefully, I'll see you there?
it is a very beautiful country, that is all i'm saying, and as bill bryoson once said, scotland is north of england, and you'd better plan for a whole day there. hehehe.
Hi,
I want to help, but I am not getting into this big fat discussi. What it boils down to is that the dog needs to be thought about, and God needs to be the first one you go to for help. I'm not saying people can't help, but nothing positive will come of this unless you go to God. Granted, this is just my opinion and noing more. I will write this certain person in a private message, and see if there is anything I can do.
Please do not bring religion into this.
Um .. could the American society for the Prevention of Cruelty to animals do anything to help out this situation?
well this whole topic I agree looks a bit off, but if it's true there are several agencies to report it to starting with humane society and the cops. Also I see absolutly nothing wrong with training one's own dog if the person is willing and able to learn with the animal and not just shoot from the hip. Would you like to be told that you can't teach your children anything because you might teach them wrong and it can be held against you? Just my 2 scents as wanted or as unwanted as they are.
I agree. I have kids and I would never want to be told I cannot teach my kids.
mrs m, i never said anything like this. i am just against the self training of dogs who are meant to be service dogs. service dogs are to perform a service for a disabled person that they cannot do for themselves, such as guide a blind person etc. now if that dog does something, or such, and that dog is self trained, the trainer gets in the shit. also, if the dog gets unjustly taken due to fuckups etc, that self trainer needs to take the responsability for that. i know you are taking some responsibility for this, but i think there is more to this ahan meets the eye, and please, please, do not bring religion into a purely legal case. and as for teaching yoru kids things, the education system in the US and the UK provides formula for teaching kids things, and unless you home school, you will be regulated by the system. i've read crackpot posts on this site about those who want to rebell against the system, but want it to help them too, and they can't have it both ways.
Actually, some research has shown that dogs for the disabled trained by the disabled are often more reliable. The dogs, when trained by sighted persons, for example, don't know how to react when someone with no sight, or even light perception, picks up the handle and I do believe these dogs can tell the difference. I have also seen lots of well trained guide dogs panic when they are placed with a blind person. One person in class with me had a dog who was so upset, he vomited until he vomited blood. The vet staff ran every test they could think of, and found nothing wrong with the dog. They told the girl that these sort of things happen sometimes, and the dog was fine when he was returned to the kennels.
A dog trained for the disabled by the disabled has forewarning. It isn't a shock to them when they realize that this isn't just a sighted person, or (also in my case) a non epileptic person. Of course, not every dog is better than dogs from a school. I also believe that, for safety reasons, some of the training should be done with sighted assistance (such as traffic training) for safety reasons. I had one stellar school dog and two washouts. I have trained two guide3 dogs for myself. One died of cancer. The other is Elizabeth. Both of these dogs were dedicated, strong, workers.
I also had the advantage to train in commands that I wanted the dog to learn, which most schools do not encourage, and to leave out some commands I do not use. Also not encouraged by most schools. I have always been happy with my decisions and my work. To the person who called this a "dumb" idea; I am a college graduate with fourteen years porofessional experience. I know what I am doing.
Smokey, that is what I hear. I'd love to go there and tour all day. I odn't know when it will happen, though, bu I'd love to take enough time off to do it.
Please let's not argue. I want us all to get along here, despite us having differing opinions. For those of you who think the topic is a bit off, please investigate. Call the Safe Pet Rescue and have a cordial comversation with Robin and ask her whatever you'd like. Unfortunately I cannot talk to her in a civil way because I'm too emotionally involved.
Thanks so much to any who want to help with this cause. We look forward to seeing the dog again someday. I look forward to seeing my friend happy again.
Seems simple enough. If the chip can be tracked, the chip is registerred in your name but the dog is not with you, report the dog stolen and take it from there. By your description it was stolen from you. Starting up a public campaign against one person is a style of mob justice that went out of fashion about 800 years ago and has often proven is a very bad idea. The government is, in fact, there, as Geek Woman put it, to protect the right of people and the law, if the dog was unlawfully taken from you the government has a role to get it back.
As for the anti socialist comments, which is a whole other category, suffices to say the U.S. is sadly quite far down the list of countries with world's best wellfare, mortality rate, average age, income per capita etc, all the top countries on those lists have a more active and socialistic government and people there are safer, happier and better off, on average than the average person in the U.S. The anti social propaganda sounds awfully empty most times and seems to be designed and sponsorred by the 10% of the people who have 90% of the money and want to keep it that way.
Cheers
-B
I was also thinking of drafting letters and/or emails to the mayors of both Jacksonville and St. Augustine, where this woman's "shelter" is. I wonder if you think that would be helpful.
I spoke to the police today and they didn't think they could make a report on the situation. While they agree that the dog being withheld does not seem legal, they do not think it is under the umbrella of a theft case. They suggested calling the Jacksonville Clerk of Courts. One avenue down.
Someone has offered me a replacement, but it is to the tune of $4500 dollars. I don't want to give up on Elizabeth, and that isn't exactly pocket change. I would need funding help. Again, I don't even really want to consider it. I just want my Elizabeth.
I doubt letter writing would help as it's just word of one individual against someone else.
You'd have to look more of the legal side of things, doesn't the shelter have some sort of operating license, who gve it, isn't there some sort of reporting need or public paperwork need that can be requested, if not by you than by a lawyer (not inexpensive, but an hour with a lawyer is a lot less than $4500).
In fact I'd probably consult a lawyer for an hour on the case to get ideas, not hire them for the case but consultation is probablly your best bet. You won't get the dog back by hearts and minds campaign, or I doubt it anyway, you've alrady started and you can keep trying that route, it'd be more of a legal avenue, that your pet was illegally taken, if you have a trainer or any sort of certification to back up the dog's purpose you have an even better position.
I could keep poitning out how much easier it'd be if you had gone through a licensed school but honestly, I see the point that some people may want to train their animals and it doesn't help with this particular case anyway.
I stil don't agree withit, I think animals should, ifnot be trained by recognized institutions, then at least go through some sort of review/official registration and certification process and have an organization affiliation at least.
I still don't quite understand this case, to be honest, but I think you must use the legal system to get the animal back, as it does not appear you can convince anyone to do otherwise.
I have spoken with a lawyer, who will take the case, to the tune of $1500. He also feels that it would be letters and phone calls. elizabeth was certified and registered with a national service dog registry, which is not doing us any good. Even with all of this information, the lawyer recommends phone calls and letters. The dogs I have trained myself have all taken, and passed, the public access test. All school dogs must pass this test to be matched with disabled handler, and I expect no less from my dogs.
Part of the problem here, frankly, is this happened in Floriduh the least regulated state in our rather discombobulated union. Yes, the misspelling was intentional. This national organization ought to help somehow but my legal expertise is sadly lacking.
If your lawyer wants to write letters, etc. they will be more effective because people are afraid of the threats of a lawyer.
I considered chipping a bird I had at one time, but the tracking of a chip means the person who has the animal has the scanner and access to the same database your animal is registered in. There's little sex appeal in these chips: it's basically an embedded dog tag. Not diminishing the chip, but realistically the party in possession of the animal has to be willing to take it to a vet (usually) and have the chip scanned for ID.
Maybe some of this has changed in the years since I investigated, but this sounds like a bad combination of factors ...
Well, I'm going to continue writing letters and calling her every single day until she decided to do the right thing. I will also have the lawyer do some writing as well. While we should have a lawyer involved, this does not mean we cannot also do our part. Nobody who has gone through such a horrible situation is going to sit back and be passive. Not me, at least. If i'm wronged, I'm going to go crazy. I'm going to go nuts. I'll make sure the entire world knows. I feel like if i do not do this, if I do not put the pressure on this woman and her organization, than I'm a crappy friend. i'm just as good as dead.
I take loyalty and friendship seriously, and if I were in the same situation, I'd want the same help. So, I am going to do for her what I'd like done for me. And, if an injustice was done to me, I'd slag it all over the web. I'd write letters every single day. I'd do petitions. I'd do phone calls. i'd spread the word everywhere just as I'm doing now to make sure that everyone, and I mean every single person on the plannet, knew about this, and I see nothing at all immature about doing any of these things--nothing at all. Why wouldn't you do this. I'm sure that if it were you, you'd be just as emotional and just as pressuring to get it corrected, especially if it were happening to someone you loved. You can't blame my friend or I for our reactions and wanting to spread the word. That is the best thing to do. get the media involved. Go all over the net. I don't know about you, but I don't just sit back and allow things to happen.
We are now going to design both a FaceBook and a MySpace page for Elizabeth. The language on the page will be as if the dialog is coming from her. She will be speaking in the first person, and there will be pictures. The dog will also have a blog and bulletins. I feel that the more people that know, the better. MySpace and FaceBook are the best places to get the word out. She will even have a twitter page. That is what we are going to do. If you want to be on Elizabeth's friend's lists, feel free. We will put her user names in this thread for those who want to support her cause of being returned to her rightful owner. Even if you do not write letters or make phone calls, you could help us by spreading the word.
sounds like ex-husband was concerned for the dogs welfare.
He wasn't. He told me "I did it because I wanted to make you sad". Unfortunately, that doesn't matter now. I found a lawyer who would do this probono, and we went before a judge on Friday. Robin never showed. The judge considered the evidence, and said that while both Robin and my ex were in the wrong, he felt it would be detrimental to the dog emotionally to uproot her again. He didn't think that she would even be the same dog that I had trained and worked with. He said, if he could know for sure that she could return to work and be the dog I had in December, he would return her. Even the trainer who spoke on my behalf said that this wasn't a guarantee. The judge said that, in that case, he thought it would be in my best interest to start with a dog who was a clean slate. In Elizabeth's best interests, another move followed by months of retraining that may or may not be successful was unfair to her. I did win a little bit, though. He felt Robin was at fault, because her conduct was deceitful at best.
I have been offered a new dog, by a very close trainer friend of mine who breeds shepherds. The dog will be free, but equipment and training will cost up to $3000. So, now I must find funding help for this. Sadly, I do agree with the judge. Elizabeth may not have ever worked again, even if I got her back. I didn't like hearing it, but I have trained dogs for years, and it really is true. Now, I must refocus.
Can you get that financial assistance from your ex husband, through small claims court for instance.
If you have a judgement saying he was in the wrong for unlawfully stealing your guide dog you should be able to get funding for the new dog from him as well. With judgement in hand small claims court should be able to get you the money you need from him. Filing a law suit is generally cheap, less than $100, lawyers are not necessary and the case is heard by a judge in a very speedy manner.
best of luck
to post um 54 how do you know about this whole problem? i have been soo confused. i am tring to figure out how you would know about it. i think who ever took the dog away should have not had the right to give the dog up. its suppose to be the person's guide dog and should have been talked to the owner.
No, the ex-husband did it to be spiteful. I know this. I'm not saying this because she is my friend. He really did it to be spiteful. This is why he did it when she was sick in the hospital for a long time. He had to wait until she was not there and then go and do that. Yup. That's it. That's the story. It's too bad, but there are nasty people out there. I can take comfort in knowing that he will get his someday. No, not by us, but what goes around comes around. This is why I try to be ever so careful about how I treat people because I know that what I do will come back sevenfold.
Post 54 is my friend speaking. She is the victim of this crap, sorry to say.